Michael Jackson Talks To Oprah Winfrey

Februay 10th 1993

Oprah: Now this is what's shocking to me, that you even drive. What we're doing, everybody, is that we are coming from Michael's house down to this amazing amusement park, which is, oh, about several hundred yards from the house. And this is, it's incredible.

Michael: Thank you.

Oprah: And I want to know whether or not you did this for yourself or did you do it for all the children that you entertain here?

Michael: For myself and the children. Every three weeks we - terminally ill children that come to - uh-

Oprah: To the house?

Michael: Yes, yes.

Oprah: Make a wish foundation, Dream Street, Starlight, yes?

Michael: Every three weeks - and these are sick children, children with cancer. And I entertain them.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: And they come here to enjoy themselves.

Oprah: This is unbelievable. What I have to say is, these are, as I was talking to some kids that were here, these are not just grandma rides here. These are some major rides.

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: I mean the Sea Dragon, the Ferris Wheel, and there's that Zipper over there.

Michael: The Wipeout.

Oprah: Yeah, the Wipeout, and there are Bumper cars here, it's really-

Michael: Thank you. Well, it brings out the child that lives in every- body. I love rides and things like that and I share it with the children.

Oprah: Were you able to do that when you were a kid?

Michael: Not really. Sometimes, sometimes, but not often enough.

Oprah: But now you can anytime.

Michael: Every day. It's right in my back yard.

Oprah: How often do you actually come out here and do this?

Michael : Whenever I'm here I come out and I go on the rides.

Oprah: Well, is this a part of you, what we were talking about earlier, the pain of growing up and not being able to experience all the things that kids normally experience and so now you are fulfilling all those fantasies.

Michael: To compensate, yes.

Oprah: Really.

Michael: Yes, it is very true.

Oprah: Do you think you can ever really recapture it though? Does it feel the same? I mean, I don't know.

Michael: *laughs* It's more fun.

Oprah: Really?

Michael: I wouldn't change the past if I could. I'm enjoying myself.

Oprah: And here we are inside the theater. I had one too many sugar babies at the candy counter.

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: But the candy is here for all the kids. Pinocchio is here, ET is here. Did you - what's fascinating to me about you is that obviously you have this childlike aura about you and I see children with you and they play with you like you are one of them. But, a child did not do this.

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: A child did not put this together. This is really magnificent.

Michael: Well, thank you. I - I love to do things for children and I try to imitate Jesus - and I am not saying I am Jesus, I'm not saying that.

Oprah: Yes, we're clear on that.

Michael: Right, I'm trying to imitate Jesus in the fact that he said to be like children, to love children, to be as pure as children, and to make yourself as innocent and to see the world through eyes of wonderment and the whole magical quality of it all and I love that. And we'll have like a hundred bald headed children, they all have cancer, and they're all running around.

Oprah: Um-huh.

Michael: And they are enjoying themselves and it makes me cry happy tears that I was able to do this for them, you know.

Oprah: Um-huh.

Michael: Makes me so pleased inside.

Oprah: Well, when I came here to, um, about a month ago to shoot a commercial with you for promoting tonight's event, one of the things that really impressed me the most, I hope you guys are getting shots of this. I don't know how you are, if all the cameras are on us, but, oh, we got other cameras - is that there are, built inside the walls here-beds-beds for some of those sick children who come. And what I realized when I saw this is that you have to be a person who really cares about children to build it into your architecture.

Michael: Yes, yes. We have children that come who are - who intravenously - they are very sick, bedridden-

Oprah: They can't sit up.

Michael: Right. They can't sit up and these beds, they are hospital beds, you push a button, you go up or you go down and they are able to watch. We have a magic show, we show the current films, there's cartoons, anything you know, anything so they can escape to that world of magic that they don't have a chance to experience, the world I was deprived of when I was little.

Oprah: Now let me ask you this. You know I believe everything happens in people's lives for a reason. Do you think that had you not missed a lot of, uh, the life and fun and fantasy of childhood that you would be so in touch with children today. Would you relate to them as you do?

Michael: I probably would, but not as much. That's why I wouldn't change a thing-

Oprah: Really?

Michael: Because I am happy with the way things are and my caring for young people and everything.

Oprah: Are you really happy now, because you seemed so sad for a long time.

Michael: *laughs* I was sad for years and years and years. But I'm happy, I'm getting there. Yes, I'm very happy.

Oprah: And what has made you happier.

Michael: Being able to give back, you know, and to help other people.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: Heal the World Foundation which I've formed which helps children in healing in the world. We're doing Heal L. A., which is uh, we have three primary goals in mind: immunization of children, mentoring-a big sister, big brother program, and education in drug abuse. And Jimmy Carter has teamed up with us to do Heal Atlanta and we're going to go from state to state healing-- you know we've gone to Sarajevo, we've done lots of places.

Oprah: I know, I know, we have photographs of you from all over the world where you are with all these children. One of the things I was saying before we went to the last break, before the alarm went off in the house and all that-

Michael: Yeah-

Oprah: is that, uh, we were talking about the rumors. One of the strangest ones I heard was that when you're Moonwalking, you're faking it, that you have some mirrors in your socks someplace.

Michael: Oh, boy!

Oprah: And it's not really real.

Michael: No, that's not true.

Oprah: How did you, first of all, you know we've spent so much time trying to dispel the rumors, trying to get the truth out that I haven't had a really opportunity to talk to you about how you conceive your music, how you conceive the dance. Where did the Moonwalk come from?

Michael: Well, the Moonwalk came from these beautiful children, the black kids who live in the ghettos, you know, the inner cities, who are brilliant, that just have that natural talent for dancing any of these new - the running man - any of these dances. They come up with these dances, all I did was enhance the dance.

Oprah: O.K. I want to see you dance.

Michael: Oh, God, no, no.

Oprah: I want to see you dance. I want to see you dance, live.

Michael: No, no. I can show you a step or two, but, I'm a little rusty right now.

Oprah: A little rusty?!

[Michael goes on stage and dances to Dangerous.]

Michael: That's the Moonwalk - wait, you need to catch it from the - sideways.

Oprah: You gotta turn sideways?

Michael: Are you from the front?

Oprah: Yeah, we got ya!

Michael: Catch it from the sideways.

Oprah: O.k. Just show me slow motion. Could you show me slow motion?

Michael: O.K., wait, it's like, it's pushing and then there's like a popping type of thing.

[Michael stops dancing and comes down from stage.]

Michael: I'm sorry.

Oprah: *applauding* Well, I saw it live, I saw it live, I saw it live. And so you took it from the kids who were doing it.

Michael: Yeah, because, um, I think they are the real dancers.

Oprah: Yeah! And when you are, for instance, when we were here before, when we were here before to shoot that commercial, you were--

Michael: You were supposed to do this with me! *laughs*

Oprah: I don't know how to do this!

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: You know I don't know how to do this!

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: You know what? I mean all the things that were printed in the tabloids, the only thing that's ever been true was when they said I couldn't dance. Now that's the truth!

Michael : *laughs*

Oprah: When we were here the last time shooting the commercial, you were like in between shots running off and conceiving the dance, choreographing the dance, you were up all night dancing.

Michael: For the Super Bowl.

Oprah: Yes, yes.

Michael: Yes, well, I'm never satisfied. Even when I see something that I've done and people say oh it was so phenomenal - when I did Motown 25 and I did the Moonwalk for the first time, I was backstage crying afterwards.

Oprah: Why?

Michael: Because I was unhappy.

Oprah: You cried after Motown 25??

Michael: After Motown 25, yes. But, then as I was walking to the car there was this little boy, he was like 12, was a little Jewish kid, and he said, "Ooohh, you were amazing. Who taught you to ever dance like that?". And for the first time, I felt I did a good job, because I know children don't lie and I just felt so good about it then.

Oprah: You wanted to, you felt so good, you probably wanted to say- (imitating Michael) HEH-HEH!

Michael: *laughs* Heh-heh!

Oprah: I want you to sing something acapella for me, if you can.

Michael: Oh, no! What could I sing?

Oprah: Who is it, you know do that whole little beat thing, since we're here in the theater.

Michael: Um, oh, boy, what could I sing? Who Is It?

Oprah: Where did that Hee-hee thing come from? Hee-hee.

Michael: Hee-hee! [starts the beat and makes instrument sounds to Who Is It?] *sings* I gave my money, I gave my time, I gave her everything in life one heart could find. It doesn't seem to matter and it doesn't seem right, but the will has brought no fortune, still I cry alone at night. Don't you judge of my composure cause I'm bothered every day, and she didn't leave a letter, she just up and ran away.

Oprah: OOOWWWW! Fabulous!

Michael: I mean, you wanted me to do it! I get embarrassed. I'm sorry. I get embarrassed.

Oprah: I like it very much. Thank you very much for that. We're going to come right back with more of Michael Jackson live--- That was GREAT! *hugs Michael*

[Cut to clips for intermission]

Oprah: One of the reasons we wanted to look at that piece when we went to break there was because music videos used to be you, used to just be people singing their song until you came along and changed music videos. Did you know when you first conceived your first one that's what you were doing?

Michael: Yeah. The idea was to make something that was a story so it had a beginning, a middle and an ending.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: So it felt like a mini movie, that's what I wanted to do. And that is what we did with Beat It and Thriller and Smooth Criminal and all those type of things.

Oprah: So when you start to look at a piece of work or look at a piece of music, are you already thinking about how you are going to -

Michael: Sometimes, yes, that is very true.

Oprah: Uh-huh. I wonder what it feels like, I will never know since I cannot sing one thing, but, what it feels like to be on stage with a sea of people, a sea of people. One of the things that has impressed me in putting the pieces together for you, is all around the world, the response to you is so incredible. I just wanted to, for the rest of you in the world who haven't seen how people respond to Michael Jackson to take a look---

[Cut to concert clips and crowd scenes from around the world, with Will You Be There playing as background music.]

Oprah: So, when you're standing there and there's a sea of people responding to you, screaming you name as they were, what does it feel like?

Michael: Love, you just feel lots of love and I feel blessed and honored to be able to be an instrument of nature that was chosen to give them that, what I give them. I'm very honored and happy about that.

Oprah: An instrument of nature - that's an interesting way to describe yourself.

Michael: Thank you, yes.

Oprah: Are you very spiritual?

Michael: In what sense?

Oprah: I mean, do you, do you meditate? Do you understand that there's something bigger than yourself at work here?

Michael: I believe in God, absolutely, absolutely, very much.

Oprah: Uh-huh. And I believe that everybody comes to the world for a reason. I think, um, most of us spend our lives trying to figure out what the purpose of our being here is. What do you think yours is?

Michael: My purpose?

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: Oh, boy, I think, um, to give in the best way I can through song, and through dance and through music. I mean, I am committed to my art. I believe that all art has as it's ultimate goal the union between the material and the spiritual, the human and the divine. I believe that to be the reason for the very existence of art.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Michael: And, um, I feel I was chosen as an instrument to just give music and love and harmony to the world. To children of all ages, and um, adults and teenagers.

Oprah: Do you think that by talking now, setting the record straight for yourself, that maybe people will be able to focus more attention on your music and not judge you for anything other than the kind of music that you play?

Michael: I would hope so. I would love that.

Oprah: Well, I hope that comes out of this, too. I'm also excited that the world is watching, and because the world is watching, we thought this was a good time to let the world see the world premiere of Give In To Me.

[Cut to world premiere showing of Give In To Me video]

Oprah: So, we want to know how it starts on a piece of paper-quench my desire-and turns into that.

Michael: Well, Give In To Me, I wanted to write another song, you know, that was kinda exciting and fun and had a rock edge to it. You know, like when I did Beat It and Black or White. And Slash, who's a dear friend of mine, we love animals and things like that, he wanted to play guitar and I wanted him to play guitar. We got together and we went to Germany and we shot this thing in just like two hours. We had no time at all to shoot it. We wanted it to be exciting and fantastical and fans, you know, like it's a rock concert and that's how it ends up-that's the result.

Oprah: You mentioned animals. I know everyone's going to ask me when I leave here, where are all the animals? I said it in the opening, I expected chimps to be jumping all over the living room and I didn't see any. Where's Bubbles?

Michael: *laughs* Well, the animals are everywhere. They're in their habitats. They're all over the ranch. And they come out in the daytime and they play and jump around, they have their own playground and area.

Oprah: Why, why were you so fascinated by animals, do you think?

Michael: Because I find in animals the same thing I find so wonderful in children. That purity, that honesty, where they don't judge you, they just want to be your friend. I think that is so sweet.

Oprah: I do, too. We'll be right back with Michael Jackson, live.

Announcer: Michael Jackson talks to Oprah. Ninety prime-time minutes with the King of Pop.

Oprah: We're live at Michael Jackson's house, in his theater and we asked NBC for ninety minutes. I don't think it was enough time.

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: I think we've cleared up all the rumors though. There are no chimps running around the house-

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: No oxygen tank in the house. I don't know, are you going to lay off the crotch a little bit?

Michael: *laughs* Ask the music.

Oprah: Ask the music will you lay off the crotch. Oh, we didn't get about the inauguration. Did you tell President Clinton that you had to be the only person there singing?

Michael: That is horrible. That is the stupidest, craziest story that I have ever heard. I mean, why would I just want me and nobody else could be on the show, just me. That's so stupid, to me. I mean, it's crazy. That's not even in my heart. I would never say any- thing like that. Again, somebody made it up and the whole world believed it . It is so false, it's incredible.

Oprah: What do you want, want most-what do you want the world to know about you most? I asked Liz that of you, what do you want them to know?

Michael: Like to be remembered for?

Oprah: Not to be remembered for-what about for now? Forget remembered.

Michael: Oh, known for now. As to be an artist, a great artist. I, I love what I do and I would love people to love what I do and to be loved. I just simply want to be loved wherever I go. All over the world, because I love people of all races from my heart, with true affection.

Oprah: Hmm. You know, Gene Siskel who's a movie critic asked me this question once. And I love the question, so I am going to ask you.

Michael: Yeah?

Oprah: You're 34 years old. What do you know for sure?

Michael: Hmm. What do I know for sure?

Oprah: What do you know for sure?

Michael: Oh, boy, I'm still learning. I mean, life is an education for me. I can't say that I know anything for sure. I really believe that.

Oprah: I can't thank you enough for letting us in and I wish you all the happiness in the world. I loved being here because it makes me feel like a child again and one of the things I promised myself was that when this interview was over-live around the world- I was going to go get on that Ferris Wheel!

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: And that is exactly what I intend to do. I'm gonna take off my blue shoes and I'm gonna ride that Ferris Wheel!

Michael: *laughs*

Oprah: I'm gonna have a good time and have myself a little popcorn, maybe, and maybe when it's all over, you'll teach me how to do the Moonwalk-when everybody's not looking!

Michael: O.K.! O.K.! That sounds good.

Oprah: Yeah! This was fun!

Michael: Yeah! Lots of fun!

They leave the theater together to go to the amusement park.

End of program.

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