Michael Jackson Talks To Oprah Winfrey

Februay 10th 1993

Broadcast LIVE around the world from Michael's Neverland Valley Ranch in California

Oprah: Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Jackson.

Michael enters the living room of his home. They shake hands and Michael kisses Oprah on the cheek.

Oprah: How nervous are you?

Michael: How what?

Oprah: How nervous are you right now?

Michael: I'm not nervous at all, actually.

Oprah: You really aren't?

Michael: No, I never get nervous.

Oprah: Not even for your first interview and it's live around the world? I thought you'd be a little nervous but you're not and that's great because if you're not nervous I won't be nervous. I just wanted to let the world know that when we agreed to do this interview you said you would be willing to talk to me about everything.

Michael: That's true.

Oprah: Very true. I was watching you in the background there watching you in the video of the early years. Did that bring back memories for you?

Michael: It made me giggle because I haven't seen that footage in a long time. Did it bring back memories? Yes, me and my brothers who I love dearly and it's just a wonderful moment for me.

Oprah: I saw you laugh when you saw yourself singing Baby, Baby, Baby.

Michael: Yeah, I think James Brown is a genius you know when he's with the Famous Flames, unbelievable. I used to watch him on television and I used to get angry at the camera-man because whenever he would really start to dance they would be on a close-up so I couldn't see his feet. I'd shout "show him show him.", so I could watch and learn.

Oprah: So he was a big mentor for you?

Michael: Phenomenal, phenomenal.

Oprah: Who else was?

Michael: Jackie Wilson who I adore as an entertainer, and of course music, Motown. The Bee Gees who are brilliant, I just love great music.

Oprah: When I look at those tapes of you, and heaven knows, putting this together I think I've seen every piece of video ever done of you, and watching those tapes when, especially in the younger years, you seem to really come alive on stage. Were you as happy off stage as you appear to be on stage?

Michael: Well, on stage for me was home. I was most comfortable on stage but once I got off stage, I was like, very sad.

Oprah: Really?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: And sad from the beginning, sad since it first started, sad?

Michael: Lonely, sad, having to face popularity and all that. There were times when I had great times with my brother, pillow fights and things, but I was, used to always cry from loneliness.

Oprah: Beginning at what age?

Michael: Oh, very little, eight, nine.

Oprah: When you all first became famous?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: So it wasn't what it appeared to be to the rest of the world, all of us .. I remember I was a little black child, wanted to marry Jackie Jackson, your brother, so I mean to all of us we thought this was the most wonderful thing in the world, who wouldn't have wanted that life?

Michael: It was wonderful, there is a lot of wonderment in being famous. I mean you travel the world, you meet people, you go places, it's great. But then there's the other side, which I'm not complaining about. There is lots of rehearsal and you have to put in a lot of your time, give of yourself a lot.

Oprah: Do you feel... I talked with Susan de Passe the other day, and Susan de Passe worked with you at Motown and really groomed you all and found the outfits for the Ed Sullivan Show. We talked about whether or not it was really lost, was it?

Michael: Well, especially now I come to realize - and then - I would do my schooling which was three hours with a tutor and right after that I would go to the recording studio and record, and I'd record for hours and hours until it's time to go to sleep. And I remember going to the record studio there was a park across the street and I'd see all the children playing and I would cry because it would make me sad that I would have to work instead.

Oprah: I want to go to this and show some pictures of you as a little boy.

Michael: OK.

Oprah: Susan said it was a heavy price. I want to know how big of a price it was, losing your childhood or having this kind of life?

Michael: Well, you don't get to do things that other children get to do, you know, having friends and slumber parties and buddies. There was none of that for me. I didn't have any friends when I was little. My brothers were my friends.

Oprah: Was there ever a place where - because you know children - because I remember talking to myself and playing with my dolls - was there.. and I think every child needs a place to escape into, a child's world, a child's imagination, was there ever a time you could do that?

Michael: No. And that is why I think now because I didn't have it then, I compensate for that. People wonder why I always have children around, because I find the thing that I never had through them, you know Disneyland, amusement parks, arcade games. I adore all that stuff because when I was little it was always work, work, work from one concert to the next, if it wasn't a concert it was the recording studio, if it wasn't that it was TV shows or interviews or picture sessions. There was always something to do.

Oprah: Did you feel, Smokey Robinson said this about you, and so have many other people, that you were like an old soul in a little body.

Michael: I remember hearing that all the time when I was little. They used to call me a 45-years-old midget wherever I went, I just used to hear that and wherever I went .. just like when some people when you were little and you started to sing did you know you were that good? And I say I never thought about it, I just did it and it came out. I never thought about it really.

Oprah: So here you were, Michael Jackson, you all had hits, you all had so many hits, four hits in a row, and you were crying because you couldn't be like other kids.

Michael: Well, I loved show business and I still love show business, but then there are times you want to play and have some fun and that part did make me sad. I remember one time we were getting ready to go to South America and everything was packed up and in the car ready to go and I hid and I was crying because I really did not want to go. I wanted to play. I did not want to go.

Oprah: Were your brothers jealous of you when you started getting all the attention?

Michael: Not that I know of, no.

Oprah: You never felt a sense of jealousy?

Michael: Oh, let me think - no. No, I think they were always happy for me that I could do certain things, but I've never felt jealousy among them.

Oprah: Do you think they are jealous of you now?

Michael: I wouldn't think so. I don't think so, no.

Oprah: No. What's your relationship like with your family? Are you all close still?

Michael: I love my family very much. I wish I could see them a little more often than I do. But we understand because we're a show business family and we all work. We do have family day when we all get together, we pick a person's house, it might be Jermaine's house or Marlon's house or Tito's house and everyone will come together in fellowship and love each other and talk and catch up on who's doing what and....

Oprah: You weren't all upset about LaToya and LaToya's book and the things that LaToya has said about the family?

Michael: Well, I haven't read LaToya's book. I just know how to love my sister dearly, I love LaToya and I always will and I always see her as the happy, loving LaToya that I remember growing up with. So I couldn't completely answer on that.

Oprah: Do you feel that some of the things that she's been saying are true?

Michael: I couldn't answer Oprah, honestly I haven't read the book. That's the honest truth.

Oprah: Well, let's go back to when you were growing up and feeling all of this, well, I guess it's a sense of anguish, I guess, so there was no one for you to play with other than your brother's, you never had slumber parties?

Michael: Never.

Oprah: So I'm wondering for you, being this cute little boy who everybody adored and everybody who comes up to you they're pulling your cheeks and how cute, how adolescence going through that duck stage where everything's awkward, and I'm wondering when you started to go through adolescence having been this child superstar, was that a particularly difficult time for you?

Michael: Very. Very, very difficult, yes. Because I think every child star suffers through this period because you're not the cute and charming child that you were. You start to grow, and they want to keep you little forever.

Oprah: Who's they?

Michael: The public. And um, nature takes its course.

Oprah: It does?

Michael: Yes, and I had pimples so badly it used to make me so shy, I used not to look at myself, I'd hide my face in the dark, I wouldn't want to look in the mirror and my father teased me and I just hated it and I cried every day.

Oprah: Your father teased you about your pimples?

Michael: Yes and tell me I'm ugly.

Oprah: Your father would say that?

Michael: Yes he would. Sorry Joseph.

Oprah: What's your relationship like with him?

Michael: I love my father but I don't know him.

Oprah: Are you angry with him for doing that? I think that's pretty cruel actually.

Michael: Am I angry with him?

Oprah: Because adolescence is hard enough without a parent telling you that you're ugly.

Michael: Am I angry with him? Sometimes I do get angry. I don't know him the way I'd like to know him. My mother's wonderful. To me she's perfection. I just wish I could understand my father.

Oprah: And so let's talk about those teen years. Is that when you started to go inside yourself? Because obviously you haven't spoken to the world for 14 years. So you went inside, you became a recluse. Was it to protect yourself?

Michael: I felt there wasn't anything important for me to say and those were very sad, sad years for me.

Oprah: Why so sad? Because on stage you were performing, you were getting your Grammies. Why so sad?

Michael: Oh, there's a lot of sadness about my past and adolescence, about my father and all of those things.

Oprah: So he would tease you, make fun of you.

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: Would he ... did he ever beat you?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: And why would he beat you?

Michael: He saw me, he wanted me ... I guess I don't know if I was his golden child or whatever it was, some may call it a strict disciplinarian or whatever, but he was very strict, very hard, very stern. Just a look would scare you, you know.

Oprah: And were you scared of him?

Michael: Very. Like there's been times when he'd come to see me, I'd get sick, I'd start to regurgitate.

Oprah: As a child or as an adult?

Michael : Both. He's never heard me say this. I'm sorry, please don't be mad at me.

Oprah: Well, I mean, I suppose everybody has to take responsibility for what they've done in life. And your father is one of those people who also have to take responsibility.

Michael: But I do love him.

Oprah: Yes, I understand this.

Michael: And I am forgiving.

Oprah: But can you really forgive?

Michael: I do forgive. There's so much garbage and so much trash that's written about me it is so untrue, they're complete lies, and those are some of the things I wanted to talk about. The press has made up so much ... God ... awful, horrifying stories it has made me realize the more often you hear a lie, I mean, you begin to believe it.

Oprah: Um, we talked about all of the rumors just before we went to the break and there are so many. First of all, I have been in this house getting prepared for this and I've been all over the house upstairs when you weren't looking, looking for that oxygen chamber and I cannot find an oxygen chamber anywhere in the house.

Michael: That, that story is so crazy, I mean it's one of those tabloid things, it's completely made up.

Oprah: Okay, but you are in something there, there's a picture of you, where did that come from? How did it get started?

Michael: That's ... I did a commercial for Pepsi and I was burned very badly and we settled for one million dollars and I gave all the money ... like we built this place called the Michael Jackson Burn Center and that's a piece of technology used for burn victims, right, so I'm looking at the piece of technology and decide to just go inside it and just to hammer around, somebody takes the picture, when they process the picture the person who processes the picture says, "Oh, Michael Jackson," he made a copy and these pictures went all over the world with this lie attached to it. It's a complete lie, why do people buy these papers. It's not the truth and I'm here to say. You know, do not judge a person, do not pass judgment, unless you have talked to them one on one, I don't care what the story is, do not judge them because it's a lie.

Oprah: You're right, that story, it was just like it had legs.

Michael: It's crazy! Why would I want to sleep in a chamber? [Laughing]

Oprah: Well, the rumor was that you were sleeping in the chamber because you didn't want to grow old.

Michael: That's stupid. That's stupid. It's completely made up and I'm embarrassed. I'm willing to forgive the press, or forgive anybody, I was taught to love and forgive, which I do have in my heart, but please don't believe these crazy, horrifying things.

Oprah: Did you buy the Elephant man's bones, were you trying to get them for...

Michael: No that's another stupid story. I love the story of the Elephant Man, he reminds me of me a lot and I could relate to it, it made me cry because I saw myself in in the story, but no I never asked for the ... where am I going to put some bones?

Oprah: I don't know.

Michael: And why would I want some bones?

Oprah: I don't know. So where did that come from?

Michael: Someone makes it up and everybody believes it. If you hear a lie often enough, you believe it.

Oprah: Yes and people make money selling tabloids.

Michael: Yes

Oprah: All right. Just recently, there was a story and I know one of your attorneys held a news conference, there was a story about you wanting a little white child to play you in a Pepsi commercial.

Michael: That is so stupid. That is the most ridiculous, horrifying story I've ever heard. It's crazy. Why, number one, it's my face as a child in the commercial, me when I was little, why would I want a white child to play me? I'm a black American, I am proud to be a black American, I am proud of my race. I am proud of who I am. I have a lot of pride and dignity. That's like you wanting an oriental person to play you as a child. Does that make sense?

Oprah: No.

Michael: So, please people, stop believing these horrifying stories.

Oprah: Okay, then let's go to the thing that is most discussed about you, that is the color of your skin is most obviously different than when you were younger, and so I think it has caused a great deal of speculation and controversy as to what you have done or are doing, are you bleaching your skin and is your skin lighter because you don't like being black?

Michael: Number one, as I know of, there is no such thing as skin bleaching, I have never seen it, I don't know what it is.

Oprah: Well they used to have those products, I remember growing up always hearing always use bleach and glow, but you have to have about 300,000 gallons.

Michael: Okay, but number one, this is the situation. I have a skin disorder that destroys the pigmentation of the skin, it's something that I cannot help. Okay. But when people make up stories that I don't want to be who I am it hurts me.

Oprah: So it is...

Michael: It's a problem for me that I can't control, but what about all the millions of people who sits out in the sun, to become darker, to become other than what they are, no one says nothing about that.

Oprah: So when did this start, when did your ... when did the color of your skin start to change?

Michael: Oh boy, I don't ... sometime after Thriller, around Off the Wall, Thriller, around sometime then.

Oprah: But what did you think?

Michael: It's in my family, my father said it's on his side. I can't control it, I don't understand, I mean, it makes me very sad. I don't want to go into my medical history because that is private, but that's the situation here.

Oprah: So okay, I just want to get this straight, you are not taking anything to change the color of your skin...

Michael: Oh, God no, we tried to control it and using make-up evens it out because it makes blotches on my skin, I have to even out my skin. But you know what's funny, why is that so important? That's not important to me. I'm a great fan of art, I love Michelangelo, if I had the chance to talk to him or read about him I would want to know what inspired him to become who he is, the anatomy of his craftsmanship, not about who he went out with last night ... what' wrong with ... I mean that's what is important to me.

Oprah: How much plastic surgery have you had?

Michael: Very, very little. I mean you can count on my two fingers, I mean let's say this, if you want to know about those things, all the nosey people in the world [giggles], read my book Moonwalk, it's in my book. You know, let's put it this way, if all the people in Hollywood who have had plastic surgery, if they went on vacation, there wouldn't be a person left in town.

Oprah: Mmm, I think you might be right.

Michael: I think I am right. It would be empty.

Oprah: Did you start having plastic surgery because of those teen years because of not liking the way you looked?

Michael: No, not really. It was only two things. Really, get my book, it's no big deal.

Oprah: You don't want to tell me what it is? You had your nose done, obviously.

Michael: Yeah, but so did a lot of people that I know.

Oprah: And so, when you hear all these things about you, and there have been more...

Michael: I've never had my cheekbones done, never had my eyes done, never had my lips done and all this stuff. They go too far, but this is stuff that happens every day with other people.

Oprah: Are you pleased now with the way you look?

Michael: I'm never pleased with anything, I'm a perfectionist, it's part of who I am.

Oprah: And so when you look in the mirror now and so the image that looks back at you are there days when you say I kinda like this or I like the way my hair ...

Michael: No. I'm never pleased with myself. No, I try not to look in the mirror.

Oprah: I have to ask you this, so many mothers in my audience have said to please ask you this question. Why do you always grab your crotch?

Michael: *Giggles* Why do I grab my crotch?

Oprah: You've got a thing with your crotch going on there.

Michael: I think it happens subliminally. When you're dancing, you know you are just interpreting the music and the sounds and the accompaniment if there's a driving base, if there's a cello, if there's a string, you become the emotion of what that sound is, so if I'm doing a movement and I go bam and I grab myself it's... it's the music that compels me to do it, it's not saying that I'm dying to grab down there and it's not in a great place you don't think about it, it just happens, sometimes I'll look back at the footage and I go ... and I go did I do that, so I'm a slave to the rhythm, yeah, okay.

After a commercial break, some of Michael's major achievements are shown:

# 1 Album of All Time
# 2 Album of All Time
Biggest Concert in History
More Music Awards Than Any Other Artist
The 80's Most # 1 Hits
Biggest Endorsements Deal Ever - 15,000,000 dollars Billion Dollar Entertainment Contract Entertainner of the Decade

Oprah: When you have broken all those records, when you have the number one album ever sold, when you've broken every record there is to break, when you become an icon of an industry, is there always the pressure to do something bigger and something better.

Michael: Oh gee, that is something, um, it makes it harder each time to follow up. You try to be as original as you can be without thinking about statistics, just you go from the soul and from the heart.

Oprah: And so when you think of that what do you do, you go, you meditate, you think, well I will now do the Superbowl.

Michael: Nooo, I just create out of my heart, really.

Oprah: Liz Taylor said you were king of pop, rock and soul. Where did this whole notion that you proclaimed yourself king of pop come from?

Michael: Well, I didn't proclaim myself to be anything. I'm happy to be alive, I'm happy to be who I am, king of pop was first said by Elizabeth Taylor on one of the award shows.

Oprah: And that's where this all started?

Michael: Yes, and the fans ... all the stadiums that we played at they'd bring banners saying king of pop and jackets that say king of pop and T-shirts that say king of pop and they chanted outside my hotel, so it just became something that just happened all over the world.

Oprah: Do you go out, do you date?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: Who do you date?

Michael: Well, right now it's Brooke Shields. Well, we try not to be everywhere, go everywhere, it's mostly at home, she'll come over, I'll go to her house, because I don't like going out in public.

Oprah: Have you ever been in love?

Michael: Yeah.

Oprah: With Brooke Shields?

Michael: Yes, and another girl.

Oprah: And another girl? Let me ask you this, and it's embarrassing for me to ask you this, but I'm gonna ask you anyway, are you a virgin?

Michael: Uhhhhh, how could you ask you that question?

Oprah: I just want to know.

Michael: I'm a gentleman.

Oprah: You're a gentleman?

Michael: I'm a gentleman.

Oprah: I would interpret that to mean that you believe that a lady is a lady and therefore..

Michael: That's something that's private, I mean, it shouldn't be spoken about openly. ......... You can call me old fashioned if you want, but, you know I mean that's very personal.

Oprah: So, you're not going to answer it?

Michael: I'm embarrassed.

Oprah: Well, we would like to know whether or not there is a possibility that you are going to marry one day and have children?

Michael: I would feel my life is incomplete if I do not 'cause I adore the family life, I adore children and I adore that whole thing. And I would love to, that's one of my dreams, but I couldn't right now because I'm married, I'm married to my music and there has to be that closeness in order to do the kind of work that I want to do and ...

Oprah: What kind of woman makes you - in the video we're going to see later, we premier the world video, there's a line where you talk about being quenched, so what kind of person does that for you?

Michael: *Sings* Quench my desire ... Well Brooke, I've always liked her and when I was little I used to stay with Diana Ross, me and my brother stayed with her for years and I never said, but I always had a crush on her.

Oprah: You did?

Michael: Yes.

Oprah: I heard too, this was another one of those rumors, that you had proposed to Elizabeth Taylor at some point.

Michael: Elizabeth Taylor is gorgeous, beautiful, and she still is today, I'm crazy about her.

Oprah: Yeah, but did you propose to her?

Michael: I would like to have.

Oprah: Well, Elizabeth Taylor is here. Liz? Can we bring Liz out now? Liz had said she wanted to be here to hold your hand through this. You don't look like you need your hand held. Elizabeth Taylor!

Michael: Hi, Elizabeth

Oprah: Hi.

Elizabeth : Hi.

Oprah: Have a seat.

Elizabeth: Thank you.

Oprah: Did Michael ever propose to you?

Elizabeth: No! And I never proposed to him.

Oprah: Never did! What do you think is most misunderstood about Michael Jackson?

Elizabeth: All the things you mentioned. He is the least weird man I have ever known. He is highly intelligent, true, intuitive, understanding, sympathetic, generous almost to a fault, of himself.

Oprah: Uh-huh.

Elizabeth: Uh, and he just, if, if he has any eccentricities, it's that he is like larger than life and some people just cannot accept that or face it or understand it. His talent on stage, why I call him the King of pop, rock, soul, music, entertainment, whatever,

Oprah: Yes.

Elizabeth: there's nobody that can come near him. Nobody can dance like that, write the lyrics like that, the music, uh, cause the kind of excitement that he does.

Oprah: And why do you think you all are such good friends? What has brought about this kind of bond? Because people try to make this weird.

Elizabeth: Well, it's not. I mean, our childhoods are very similar, and we have that from the very beginning in common. Um, I was a child star at nine, had an abusive father, um, and that kind of brought us close together in the very beginning.

Oprah: And what is it, I am going to ask Michael this question later on, but, what is it you most want the world to know about him?

Elizabeth: What a wonderful, giving, caring, generous man he is and how good he is.

Oprah: And he's funny, too.

Elizabeth: Oh, he's wildly funny.

Oprah: He can crack some jokes, I tell you.

Elizabeth: Yes, but he is a good man.

Oprah: When we come back - Thank you for joining us too -

Elizabeth: That's fine.

Oprah: ...cause I know you did not want to be on camera at first, but thank you. Coming up next, Michael is going to give us not only a tour of his incredible amusement park and movie theater, but also a very special dance performance. For all of you who say he is faking the Moonwalk with mirrors, we've got some proof coming up in a minute.

Cut to dance clips for intermission Announcer : Live from Santa Inez, California. Michael Jackson talks to Oprah.

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